Friday, February 26, 2010

Sustaining a Dialogue

Welcome to the City-County Community Voices blog. Recently, our community has been divided over efforts in the General Assembly to change the Composite Index for School funding that would result in a transfer of $2.8 million from City schools to County schools. This has raised issues about the 1982 Revenue Sharing Agreement. As a long-time resident of this community and as the Delegate representing both of these jurisdictions, I have been concerned that this dispute will sour relations between the City and County at a time when fiscal stress suggests we should be pulling together.

To help address these concerns, I have convened a meeting of Charlottesville and Albemarle elected leaders on April 24. I have always believed that more can be accomplished by working together than pulling apart. This is even more important in these difficult economic times, and I am dedicated to helping find cost-saving ways of cooperating to build a better community for all.

This blog is a way for you to be involved in the discussion. It is important that we communicate and share ideas--every voice makes a difference.

Thank you for taking the first step to engage in this process by visiting this site. I now encourage you to join the dialogue by posting a comment below. Let us know your thoughts about the issues facing Charlottesville and Albemarle and your ideas for how to address them. This will help structure the meeting on April 24 and future discussions that will likely occur.

I appreciate your interest and participation in this endeavor.

Sincerely,

David J. Toscano
57th District
Virginia House of Delegates

50 comments:

  1. As a future educator, I am also concerned about pitting one school district against another. We need to find constructive ways to make sure students in both jurisdictions receive the top-notch schooling that attracts families and businesses to the area.

    Thank you for your hard work for us in the General Assembly!

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  2. As a grandmother who has lived in both Albemarle and Charlottesville for nearly 40 years I still do not understand why we support separate school systems & separate governing bodies of such size and responsibility for a community this small! What a waste! Question, does UVA pay for the Albemarle-provided education that the kids of UVA grad students living in student housing receive?

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  3. What is the history behind the separate city/county? Have they tried to merge in the past?

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  4. Let's be honest, the revenue sharing agreement took 18 mil from the county schools (you can draw it anyway you want, but the bottom line remains the same). Any business, and for the sake of argument, let's call this a business, deducts its expenses from the bottom line. Why would Albemarle report a bottom line to the state (thus shorting its own school system) 18 mil higher than it actually was? Furthermore, why C-ville would be allowed to keep the 18 "off the books" is beyond me. Folks, you can't have it both ways! If C-ville needs the revenue sharing from Albemarle, then Albemarle gets credit for the donation! This is easy math, sorry but it is the politicians complicating the matter.

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  5. revenue sharing = tax

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  6. Hey anonymous....'you cant have it both ways'...it was the formula at the time of agreement as it is today...it was voted on by both citizens...lets trade what the city would have and would continue to get if it had annexed then you'll see just how much money would have been better for the City and the County would not have any urban area to speak of. Get a clue.

    Now that that is out, lets consolidate the two entities and become the one community that we should be rather than dickering about the money. Most people dont know where the city county lines are anyway.

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  7. Delegate Toscano, there is no way I can look at the current composite index and think of it as anything more than a double tax on the revenue sharing agreement. The only fair thing is the one thing you don't want to do and that is support Del. Bell's bill. Anything less is unacceptable. We have had taxation without representation in terms of the tax dollars we send the city via the revenue sharing agreement.
    Before this the city would never had sat down to the table to talk about the $18 million we just sent them. I have watched as the city has put up every road block to the Meadowcreek parkway even though they agreed to build it. It seems those chickens have come home to roost.

    You are trying to do something good here but it seems too late if the bill passes. It all seems more political then practical. If Albemarle gets the money it will never give it back. They have learned that from the city.

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  8. If Delegate Bell's bill passes, it will create a devastating environment between the City and County.

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  9. What everyone seems to forget is that if an economic hardship is forced upon the City, the City could revert to town status and turn all of the services that they choose over to the County (even schools).

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  10. Anonymous said, "if an economic hardship is forced upon the City, the City could revert to town status...".
    But the city won't ever face that kind of economic hardship as long as the county is contributing big bucks to keep them afloat. The city has lots of wiggle room in its budget. Stop all the entitlements that attract those who don't want to work, and you'll have plenty of money - hey maybe even enough to give out bonuses to city employees.

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  11. Mr Toscano: You represent both the city and some of the county, but you have chosen to represent only city interests when it comes to Bell's ammendment. Why is that? It is hard to think about cooperation when someone who is supposed to represent all interests is playing favorites.

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  12. Everyone would like to pay less taxes and get good governance and schools. The way to do this is to completely merge the city and county, which would result in one administration instead of two, thus saving tremendous amounts of money.

    I know there is resistance to this, but the Charlottesville Reversion group got enough signatures to become part of the county before, and were only stopped by a legal technicality. So, the support is there. It just takes the courage of the two governments to come together. Revenue sharing would become a moot point.

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  13. The Revenue Sharing agreement states, "The City Council and Board of Supervisors agree that irnmedi-. ately after the approval of this agreement pursuant to Section VII they will appoint a committee to study the desirability of combining the governments of the two jurisdictions, or some of the servicespresently provided by them, either in a consolidation as provided in Va. Code §lS.1-113l, or in some other manner for which special legislation might be requested."
    The study was supposed to be finished in 1983. So what were the recommendations? Obviously, to NOT combine services and governments. So let's stick to that. In these economic times, let's not waste a million more taxpayer dollars on yet another study, which will likely come to the same conclusions.
    DO NOT MERGE THE SCHOOLS! The county has a rural flavor. Leave it that way. We don't want your urban schools and your problems with underachieving students and discipline problems. And before you tell me how wonderful the city schools are, look at the VA School Report Cards (gov site).

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  14. Short and simple... the money that Albemarle County pays to the City of Charlottesville should NOT be counted on the County of Albemarle's books.

    Just because "that's the way it's been" doesn't make it right.

    Further... The City of Charlottesville had a 5.3 Million dollar surplus and in the tradition of the City of Charlottesville they decided to give "bonuses" to employees.

    Part of that 5.3 million could have been used to cover the shortfall by Delegate Bell's bill/amendment.

    How can the City of Charlottesville expect sympathy for their possible future financial losses when they've had these overages and instead of belt tightening they blow the money?

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  15. here seem few good reasons why there are two separate schools systems - city and county - so close to each other, so expensive to maintain separately ( infrastructures, administrative bureaucracies, and other redundancies) ... if there are good reasons to endure such extravagant redundancies, please explain them?

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  16. THE ISSUE OF REDUNDANCIES in City/County...
    Three Chiefs of Police in the same jurisdiction...two school systems...5 different tax-payer supported BUS systems in the same jurisdiction...the failure of the city and county to provide proper funding for the Rivanna Solid Waste Authority over these last few years...I propose a FEDERAL court appointed commission be seated to sort out a merger between the city/county...given the fact that the taxpayers of the city/county can no longer afford two systems...the new merged place would be called "Jefferson City" and would have a ten person City Council plus an elected full-time Mayor who would be head of the admin of the new city...a flat tax rate of 3% percent annual on residential property, and 5% percent on any and all commercial property...using the Pittsburgh model a tax on all 501-3cs (non-profits) and a tax on the University (using the Pittsburgh model for taxing a Public University)..and end the county "tax reduction" on "FARMS." also a tax on all legal procedings of 15% percent...I believe that would solve "this city/county crisis."

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  17. For all those who think that Del. Bell's bill will cost the city hardship if passed please answer one question. Don't you think the 18 million we gave the city causes the County hardship? We just don't want that money we aleady give to the city to be used against us when Richmond is giving us money for schools.

    The liberal city of Charlottesville has always been more generous with it's foreign sister cities than with it's largest benefactor that surrounds it.

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  18. I'd like to see the land-use penalty be removed. Currently the county pays the city more for properties under land use than it gets in revenue. This creates a disincentive to conserve rural properties important for farming and natural resources. This could be corrected by increasing the percentage the city gets off of commercial and non-landuse properties, and then reducing the amount for land use to the real taxable amount.

    Also because conservation is of interest to both the city and the county, I'd like to see more partnerships in terms of helping protect important properties with identified natural resources. One way would be if the city would agree to accept by right density from transfer of development rights.

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  19. The city wastes a lot of money as it is. I think we should us the money to the county where it likely won't be wasted as much.

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  20. Of course, if the County had let the citizen-initiated reversion of Charlottesville from a city to town status proceed and succeed several years ago, this conversation would not be needed! Instead, Albemarle filed suit to stop the process.

    Reversion would have been the end of the revenue-sharing agreement, merged schools and other services, etc. Go figure?

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  21. You know the argument. I just want to post a vote for the cause: consolidation of Charlottesville and Albemarle school systems is the prudent, just way to manage public education in the area.

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  22. One reason that I chose the city schools was for the art programs. Both of my children were artists and one was in the award winning orchestra. The county has never been willing to give their school system sufficient funds for the arts. Students from Albemarle and other surrounding counties pay to go to the city schools for the arts and other reasons. I don't trust the conservative government of Albemarle with the future of our children. Albemarle has a higher tax base than the city but is unwilling to pay for important quality of life expenditures like libraries. I don't want to combine the two communities if Albemarle's way with expenditures will be the norm.

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  23. Absolute merger is the only solution. Joint agreements always become logjammed. Look at the current water supply plan being stalled by a small group of zealots. Look at the solid waste authority from which the City withheld funds for a long period of time until they could have their way. What about the Meadowcreek Parkway which still isn't underway in the City - County section will soon be finished. We must function as a whole, not two halves.

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  24. I would agree that merger of the two school systems is a good idea and probably the best way to go. Yes, there would be changes. The City has a great fine arts program. Yet, which kids are they serving with Art, music, band, and such? At one point, I had hear a figure that nearly 55% of the children in these programs are not residents of Charlottesville but their parents pay for them to attend City schools. That means that the city tax payers are picking up the tab for the difference in what the state pays, tutition raises and the actual cost of the student to the city. I will not even go into how this effects the AP and other advance classes at CHS.

    So, why does not Charlottesville revert to Town status, which I gather it can do, and leave the schools to Albemarle? Well, it is because everybody wants it their way and not one member of the City Council or Board of Supervisors will change. It is totally a powerplay as we see in Washington and Richmond these days.

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  25. county school parentMarch 2, 2010 at 12:07 PM

    Although consolidating the schools would provide major cost savings, why would any county parent want to do that? We get much better results at a lower cost per student. And when you consider just the transportation cost differential between the two systems it is even more off-balance. I recognize that the city has a very good fine arts program in the high school, but it also has serious system-wide problems that should be addressed prior to any consolidation.

    That said, I don't have any problem with the revenue sharing agreement. It recognizes that the city could have annexed that much or more away from the county. However, remember it was a compromise that was reached while the city held a gun named annexation at the county's head. In personal contract law, can't a contract written under duress be nullified?? Anyway, the city has been double-dipping for years and they have the ongoing budget surpluses to show for it. I think it is only right that the composite index should be changed to reflect a locality's actual ability to pay, which is what it is designed to do.

    As for the "argument" that the index has always been computed this way and the county never complained until now, that is completely wrong. For years (at least as far back as the late 90's when I became active with the county schools) I was informed by School Board members and School Administrators that for years the county repeatedly approached the General Assembly, but the response was always "that's your problem and not the state's -- you got yourselves into a bad agreement." I don't know what has changed down in Richmond that is making this a viable piece of legislation now, but in the past the county was told it would be impossible to pass so it was never pursued.

    Finally, it appears to me that the city doesn't have a strong logical argument against this change and therefore is resorting to scare tactics, such as declaring a deteriorating relationship and that we are pitting school systems against each other, etc. Instead, it is time for the city to do what is right and be treated just like every other locality in the state.

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  26. Lots of good comments... I would like to add one for consolidation. We operate 3 public utility entities: the Albemarle County Service Authority, the Rivanna Water and Sewer Authority, and the City Utilities Division. All three have separate buildings, trucks, equipment, and directors. we do this because of historic lack of cooperation between the two jurisdictions. We could start with consolidation of the public utilities and if successful, use a model for further consolidations. Has there been any attempt to quantify the savings from combining the school systems?

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  27. In each election, the county is red and the city is blue. This alone is enough to judge who is right and who is wrong.

    Unfortunately, both sides can agree on the above and still reach the opposite conclusion.

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  28. Voluntary annexation is still legal. If the county wants to renegotiate the revenue sharing agreement, it should come to the table with land.

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  29. Or, if the county wants to keep its $18 million, it can help pay for the $100 million public housing project our locality needs that the city is currently sponsoring. (Just an example of the many costs the city has that the county does not.)

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  30. county school parentMarch 2, 2010 at 6:51 PM

    The county as far as I know hasn't requested changing anything about the revenue sharing agreement...all it is asking the state to do is base the composite index, which is a device that determines a locality's ability to pay, on the actual tax revenue the county has available, just as is done for every other locality in the state. That way the city and the county will receive the same treatment as every other locality in the state. It is that simple.

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  31. I'm sorry, I'm all for arts education but our country will not thrive and prosper in the long term, or create needed jobs in the short-run, by graduating painters and poets. Look at the "report cards" for the city and county schools published by the state. It includes not just test scores, but data on advanced placement classes and discipline problems. The county wins hands down! And they do it with spending ~$3000 less per pupil.

    We don't need to spend millions of dollars, that neither locality has, on studies to find out that a school merger isn't going to work. The county doesn't want to have the albatross of the underachieving city schools hanging on its neck. And the liberal pols of the city will NEVER give up their power to a fiscally-conservative county board. So stop wasting time on this subject, and don't spend another dime trying to study it.

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  32. county school parentMarch 2, 2010 at 8:05 PM

    To quote from anonymous..."it was the formula at the time of agreement as it is today...it was voted on by both citizens..." I would like an intrepid citizen or reporter look into the county's files and see what the reaction was when the county first realized that the composite index calculation wouldn't take the revenue sharing agreement into account...was it really known prior to the agreement being put into place or was it a rude shock after the fact?

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  33. The $2.8 million state rightfully belongs to the County.

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  34. I haven't read all the posts here but the majority i have read involve some time of squabbling over $. I believe the purpose of this blog is to think about creative solutions that will indeed support the needs of the children who go to public school in Albemarle County or Charlottesville City. Those of you who want to argue about tax rates, composite indices, etc - please find another forum.

    Challenging times call for creative thinking and compromise.

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  35. Thank you for creating this blog. I will read/learn more here and spread the word.

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  36. From the comments posted thus far, I think it fair to conclude that constructive dialogue is difficult when we begin with a different understanding of the facts. So, I suugest that between now and tomorrow, a trusted reliable source with capable journalists(Charlottesville Tomorrow?) compile an obejective history/account of Charlottesville and Albemarle County government and relations. I can't say what a good starting point might be -- 1960?, post WWII? -- and, obviously, "the early years" could be brief, and pertinent to history we share and concerns we have. But I do believe that it would be both informative, and constructive.

    Progress is only made when both sides trust and respect one another. As an "outsider" moving here in 1980, and as an "insider" having raised a family and started a business here, I observe that, generally, there is an unnecesaary, non-productive wall of self-perpetuated ignorance that fosters neither trust nor respect. I have also witnessed the opposite, on many ocassions.

    Last, with all due respect Mr. Toscano, you are not percieved to be an honest, impartial broker in this situation, given your political leanings and involvement with the City. I applaud your efforts, but if you wish to be engaged at this level, in this role, may I suggest that you find a "partner" to work with. That may provide a model of how we work together, not separately.

    Eric Schmitz
    Albemarle County, Forest Lakes resident

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  37. the city seems to have surplus $ because of a)proper handling of finances and b) a higher real estate tax rate. if people in the county feel that they need more money in their school systems how about paying for it. in the city, we pay $.95/$100 assessed value; in the county the rate is a much lower $.74/$100 assessed value. Pay a similar rate or quit whining. Also, I would much rather have my children attend schools in the city where the diversity is welcomed and not considered a detriment. diversity is what makes the world go 'round.
    p.s~ posting as "anonymous" is chicken.

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  38. i agree with the person who suggested merging the utilities. it's a complete waste to have so many different entities working on water, sewer, and solid waste. it works well with the emergency system. start there and lots of money will be saved, in a way less subject to political maneuvering!

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  39. I find it disheartening to observe the competing monologues on this topic. I would not call it a dialogue, because there has frankly been relatively little listening, and just a lot of talking.

    We cooperate on so many things, and so many of them involve money. Fire service. The Jail. Water and sewer. CATEC. Solid waste disposal. We entered into the revenue-sharing-and-waiver-of-annexation agreement almost 30 years ago, and since that time both parties have made land-use and financial decisions with that as part of the landscape.

    And while we're at it, let's be clear on what the agreement was. It was not just a revenue-sharing agreement; that sounds like just some gift that the County gives to the City every year. It was a revenue-sharing-and-waiver-of-annexation agreement, in which the City agreed not to try to annex 29 North up to Fashion Square, or Pantops Mountain out to I-64, or other parts of the County. The County wanted to be able to make reasonable plans to develop its suburban ring without the fear that the City would persuade a court to let it annex the newly developed area. In that sphere, the agreement has been successful.

    I wonder how much in tax revenue -- sales tax and property tax -- the County gets from the land between Greenbrier Drive and Rio Road that would have been the prime annexation target? Or from Pantops Mountain's residences and businesses?

    I don't know where to find tax data on that, but maybe someone else does...

    One last point.

    If Charlottesville were a dying community, Albemarle County would be a less desirable place to live.

    By the same token, if Albemarle were dying, Charlottesville would be a less desirable place to live.

    We're all in this together, and the revenue-sharing-and-waiver-of-annexation agreement recognized that. Cooperation can be a win-win proposition. Confrontation WILL be a lose-lose proposition.

    Delegate Bell's bill is a lose-lose proposition.

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  40. I think there are some great ideas in the comments above. It also sounds like there's a great deal of anger, mistrust, and hostility. A huge thank you to Del. Toscano for stepping forward to take on what is obviously a very contentious political issue that others have either avoided or delivered us talking points and platitudes on for so long.

    As a County resident, one of my primary concerns with the Agreement as it currently exists involves the massive disincentive it presents to the preservation of rural land in Albemarle. As Lonnie mentioned above, Albemarle loses money on every piece of property taxed under Land Use. As many know, this is because the formula by which the amount that each jurisdiction contributes to the joint pool and the subsequent redistribution of funds is based upon the fair market value of taxable land multiplied by the current tax rate.

    I think it very obvious to both those in the City and in the County that the preservation of rural lands is not only good policy from environmental, ecological, and cultural/heritage standpoints, but also - and critically - from an economic one. A large reason for the vibrancy of our local economies, the value of all our property, and the attractiveness of our communities to businesses and new residents involves this preservation and the amenities associated with it.

    I believe a good starting point in this discussion would be on modifying the contribution formula in the Agreement to be based upon the total taxes assessed/collected by Albemarle County, rather than the total amount we "could" assess, if we sacrificed important programs like Land Use. Such a beginning acknowledges that programs like this are beneficial to both the County and the City and reinforces Delegate Toscano's above point that, indeed, more can be accomplished by working together and recognizing the joint benefits that we can derive from pooling resources rather than pulling apart.

    Beyond that, there are any number of options to consider, ranging from a joint City/County taskforces to identify mutually-beneficial programs that the contributions must be dedicated to, yes, perhaps merging the City and County school systems and/or public utilities to eliminate redundancies and administrative overhead.

    The Agreement was initially borne out of an acrimonious political environment in which public servents showed up, sat down at the same table, and arrived at an agreement designed to better serve both of our communities. I would like to think that even in this time of extreme partisanship, we can do the same again. I would encourage an open, vibrant, public, and thoughtful debate on these issues and for both sides to be open to the possibility of concessions to arrive at a consensus.

    Christopher Dumler
    Albemarle County

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  41. It is wonderful that you have started the discussion between the City and the County However, I do think that the divisions are too deep to be resolved by getting a bunch of elected officials together. You might want to think about using a mediator and having that person facilitate a dispute resolution process that involves only those who truly have decision-making authority and power. Certainly these leaders could and should consult with their constituents as the process progresses, but truly, too many cooks always spoil the broth.

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  42. according to the records of the County: 60% percent of the land in the county is not taxed at the published tax rate...either it is not taxed i.e. 501-3c or it is considered a "farm." A system in my opinion that is leading to the current situation...

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  43. Delegate Bell's bill will adjust the state Composite Index to account for the side of the Revenue Sharing equation that negatively impacts the County. Delegate Bell conveniently did not ask for the Composite Index to be adjusted to account for the side of the Revenue Sharing equation that negatively impacts the City. But that's to be expected; he represents Albemarle County, not the City of Charlottesville. He's expected to do stuff that's patently unfair, as long as it's patently unfair on behalf of HIS constituents. That's politics.

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  44. I think Delegates Bell and Toscano would do a great service to the City and the County if they would use their influence to bring a staff member of the Commission on Local Government to Charlottesville/Albermarle and address Council and the Board of Supervisors on the nature of town reversion, what might be decided at a hearing before the Commission, how long it might take and, perhaps, how Revenue Sharing might be addressed.

    The fights and fusses between the City and the County, polititions and staff, which have gone on since the 1960 annexation, have become childish and clearly not in the public interest for either jurisdiction.

    Having some experience in Town Reversion I will be happy to discuss this with anyone, but my caveat is - do not hire any lawyers. Both jurisdictions have excellent staffs and attorneys already working for them.

    Lloyd Smith

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  45. If we could get city council and board of supervisors together and make them solve things with mediation, we would all benefit. My suggestions:
    1. In the '70s, Albemarle got Fashion Sq. Mall (and all that revenue), and the city got $.10/ $100, and the county's been griping ever since. Really? Maybe we should just give the city FSM, save the time, let the city get the revenue, and stop the reason for the contention.
    2. Make a five year plan to merge those programs which would help both communities WITHOUT REVERSION: Parks and Rec.(who pays any attention to city or county lines when going to a park), Police, Social Services (having kids get a new file every time they move back in with dad... ridiculous), and even schools, or at least all the specialized programs in the schools.
    I'd be happy to volunteer my time to that end. To have the city and county at odds benefits nobody.

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  46. As a county resident, I think that the revenue sharing agreement has been a great success. It has allowed Charlottesville to thrive and be an asset to the entire region. 15 years ago the city was seriously considering reverting to a town and merging with Albemarle County because long term financial projections were so bleak. Revenue Sharing was a key component in strengthening Charlottesville's financial base.

    That said I have supported the Bell amendment, because the larger amounts being shared causes increasing pain in Albemarle and the city is enjoying surpluses.

    The Revenue Sharing agreement has been effective for the last 28 years. But now we need to be planning what is best for the region for the next thirty years. There are great possibilities for improved services, lower costs and greater effectiveness with consolidation. But to be reap these advantages any consolidations must have effective governmental structures representing the entire community without pitting county and city against each other.

    The biggest barrier to cooperation between the two jurisdictions are false stereotypes based on prior conflicts. some people still see Albemarle as the rural county it was 30 years ago. It has urbanized (population has grown from 40,000 to 95,000). it has much more in common with Charlottesville now than it did then.

    Steve Koleszar

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  47. "The City Council, Albemarle County Board of Supervisors, and members of both school Boards have agreed to meet to discuss future collaboration on April 24."

    Why have the neighborhoods been left off the table? After-all, residents pay real estate tax in both jurisdictions. There is now an umbrella organization of City and County urban ring neighborhoods, The Alliance of Neighborhoods.
    www.allianceofneighborhoods.org

    Colette Hall - City

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  48. In response to the post about involving neighborhood associations, I plan to have a community town hall meeting prior to the meeting with council and board, and school boards. It is important for all members of the community to be actively engaged in this discussion.

    Thank you,
    David Toscano

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  49. Let's look at one way to start the collaboration and cooperation with the public school sports. If Charlottesville High School will work with Monticello and Western Albemarle High School to gain support in the VHSL Jefferson district to include Albemarle High School in a combined district, there will be many positive outcomes. our area youth will have more competitions with their neighbors and more events will be held locally. This could mean additional revenues for the participating teams and a closer community spirit. One of the most fun swim meets is the City/County Meet because the competitors see their friends and share the experience with more friends and family. You can say the same for the Ragged Mountain Cross Country Cup race where all the local schools come to compete annually. Let your school boards and the school Athletic Directors know that you support the VHSL AA/AAA combined district. Let's take this first small step together. It will save money and I believe it will bring in new revenues.

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  50. We moved to Albemarle County because they schools are great, and the city schools aren't. That is the bottom line. Don't destroy our great county schools by merging them with the city schools. We don't need their problems! It is just more of Obama's "redistribution of wealth", with the hard-working taxpayers of the county being forced to support the non-working welfare recipients. We give the city 18 million, and still their schools stink! If we merge, all the schools will be bad, and the county will have higher taxes. No thank you!

    You want cooperation? we already have the revenue-sharing agreement. We share the cost of the SPCA, and a few other things. Let the schools alone!

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